Andrey Sadovoy: There can be no permanent peace agreement with Russia.

Read about how the full-scale war has transformed Lviv, the displaced persons, the Ukrainian language, the curfew, and conflicts with the TCC, "Self-Help," the elections, relationships with Petro Poroshenko and Volodymyr Zelensky, the murder of Iryna Farion, "good Russians," and the end of the war in the extensive interview with Lviv Mayor Andriy Sadovyi for RBC-Ukraine.

In the heart of Lviv, on Rynok Square, the morning is as noisy as usual: trams are running, pedestrians are hurrying, and numerous cafes are gradually filling up with visitors. Externally, there is little to remind one that Ukraine has been in a full-scale war for the third year. However, closer to noon, Rynok briefly falls silent as a funeral procession moves through the central square, bidding farewell to two Ukrainian soldiers who died at the front.

According to Andriy Sadovyi, such events occur in Lviv almost every day, and currently, about 30,000 residents are fighting.

Despite its distance from the front line, Lviv is periodically subjected to Russian shelling with tragic consequences. However, many soldiers on short leave come here for a brief respite, Sadovyi says. The city has become a significant humanitarian hub, accepting thousands of wounded and displaced individuals.

At the very beginning of the full-scale invasion, millions of Ukrainians fled to Lviv from other regions to escape the war – according to the mayor, a total of five million people passed through the city. Of course, some subsequently traveled further, while others returned home. Yet even now, around 150,000 forced migrants reside in the city, making Lviv, in effect, a city with a population of over a million.

RBC-Ukraine spoke with Andriy Sadovyi not only about the life of the city and its current problems but also about politics. He has been leading Lviv for 18 years, since 2006, and during his tenure, he has worked with four Ukrainian presidents.

Sadovyi's attempt to reach a national political level with the "Self-Help" party was not very successful. After a successful election in 2014, "Self-Help" garnered less than one percent of the votes in 2019. Currently, Sadovyi assures that he is not thinking about elections. Nevertheless, he intends to support "healthy, adequate people" in politics.

Below is the full video interview with Andriy Sadovyi and a condensed text version of the conversation.

– Lviv is generally considered a rear city, but we see that the war is also close here: constant farewells to fallen soldiers, periodic "arrivals." Now, as the third year of full-scale war approaches its end, how does Lviv feel the war?

– I believe that today all cities and communities are in the same situation. Why? For example, there are currently 30,000 Lviv residents at the front line. Almost every family has delegated someone, and we have already accepted 18,000 wounded. These are also people from all over Ukraine. As you noticed, we have funerals every day. This is a great pain, so we are all in the same situation.

Yes, perhaps we have fewer destructions because Lviv is a thousand kilometers from the front line. However, if we take, for example, the recent combined attack on Lviv in September, 189 houses were damaged. We lost seven civilians, including the Bazilevich family: a young mother and three children...

Moreover, Lviv has another role. Very often, military personnel on short leave, who come from cities that are constantly shelled, arrive in Lviv, and their relatives come here, allowing them to feel the atmosphere of the city for at least a few days, and the city heals.

People at war suffer from post-traumatic stress syndrome, but those living in civilian areas who can go to shelters every day also experience the same post-traumatic stress syndrome. We will understand this better after the war. Right now, we are all clenched like a fist, and today we have one goal: wherever you can do something useful for our victory, do it. Whether you are fighting, supporting the army, treating the wounded, or receiving displaced persons.

Currently, 150,000 displaced persons live with us. This entire mix has undoubtedly changed the city, but visually, you won’t see it.

– In the first weeks and months of the full-scale war, Lviv became one of the most densely populated cities in Ukraine. It is clear that the city’s infrastructure was not prepared to accommodate such a large number of people simultaneously – how did this happen? Do you have any statistics on how many people were in Lviv, say, in the spring of 2022, compared to now?

– In total, over five million people have passed through Lviv. Indeed, there were days when two million people lived here at the same time.

Colleagues from abroad are often shocked because they cannot imagine how this can happen. If such a number of people arrived in any other city in Europe at once, it would be a collapse, it would be a disaster.

Even today, we still have a certain reserve because we have built temporary towns and repurposed many municipal housing units for temporarily displaced persons.

Essentially, together with the displaced persons, we now have approximately a million residents. The number of people who left and did not return is actually up to five percent of the total population.

– Given that such a number of people, including from southern and eastern regions, have come here, has this changed the vibe of the city? Is there perhaps more Russian being spoken in the city? This is just a hypothesis.

– The structure of Lviv’s population has changed by 90% over the past 100 years. And the fact that we are now one of the largest humanitarian hubs in the world is a fact. People who have come from the East, who perhaps did not previously use the Ukrainian language actively, have gained practice in Lviv because they are in one of the largest Ukrainian-speaking cities in the world. It is very easy to switch to Ukrainian when you are in an environment that encourages it. But you do it with love. There is no coercion or pressure here. Many people I used to know who were afraid to speak Ukrainian now do so, and they are improving with each passing day.

– So it would be correct to conclude that it is not these arriving people who are Russifying Lviv, but rather Lviv is Ukrainizing them?

– Lviv is a large energetic well, and it essentially provides this inspiring positive impulse, making you want to be in this environment and understand it.

– Language-related conflicts occasionally arise on social media, although they may have a somewhat different specificity than before February 24. Do you believe that after the war, the language issue will still be successfully exploited by politicians? Will they be able to play on this?

– This topic has always been exploited by pro-Russian forces or those receiving funding from the aggressor country. And we must understand that the Moscow elite will pour billions into destabilizing the situation in Ukraine. Because they have already realized that they cannot capture us as they planned, they will invest in supporting various nationalist, radical movements and support quasi-military organizations from their perspective, spending billions on propaganda, so we must be prepared for this and understand it.

– What is your opinion on the initiative of the mayor of Ivano-Frankivsk, Ruslan Martynkiiv, regarding language patrols?

– Oh, you know, there are so many initiatives; perhaps people have a bit more free time for such things. We don’t have that problem. We, you know, try to conduct explanatory work. There is a language ombudsman in our state; they do a good job bringing attention to officials regarding compliance with the law. There are other ombudsmen; we try to cooperate with all of them, rather than introducing separate...

– Does Lviv need a language patrol?

– I don’t see such a necessity today because Lviv is the largest Ukrainian-speaking city in the world. And I emphasize again: our strength lies in reforming people with love and making them allies.

1– How does the curfew work in Lviv, and do people adhere to it? Because we’ve heard from locals that the police often turn a blind eye, and people are quite relaxed about the curfew.

– In fact, if there are people on the street after midnight, they are usually those who have a legitimate reason to be out due to their professional activities, such as various industries, shift work, or medical professionals returning home.

Lviv has a serious video surveillance system, which helps us identify those who may pose a threat. This system was activated even before the war and is proving effective today.

We also want to restore the classic taxi service because there are often problems when you