Igor Klimenko: There will be no safety in the state if there are no police officers left in the cities.
Reporters from RBK-Ukraine visited the frontline area alongside Interior Minister Igor Klymenko. In an interview with RBK-Ukraine, the minister discussed the role of the police at the front, the ministry's communication with the TCC, arms circulation, and overall safety in the country.
The large-scale war has been ongoing for nearly three years, and the frontline territories of Ukraine are gradually becoming a scorched expanse. In some places, cities still stand – they are alive, opening cafes and lighting New Year garlands along the battered streets. The local population in the cities of Donetsk region is supplemented by a significant number of military personnel. For them, a city located 10 km from the combat zone is a peaceful area.
Some of these military personnel serve in units of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, including police officers. Currently, there are about 10,000 of them, and they serve alongside the military on the front lines. Periodically, he holds meetings – listens to reports from command regarding the operational situation, enemy plans, and the actions of our fighters. He communicates with police officers and soldiers, awarding them state and departmental honors.
The editorial team of RBK-Ukraine had been requesting an opportunity to interview Klymenko for several months. Ultimately, journalists were invited to accompany him to the frontline area. In half a day, we managed to visit Kharkiv and Donetsk regions, talk with military personnel, the evacuation group "White Angel," and, of course, with the minister himself.
"The police are fighting in hell itself"
The road from Kyiv to Kharkiv is one of the best highways in the country, so the moment you find yourself in one of the frontline cities (the name cannot be disclosed for security reasons – ed.), it starkly contrasts with the sensations in the shiny regional center. Despite being regularly shelled, Kharkiv seems to never stop. Here, however, everything is different.
One part of the city tries to live, but it is evidently struggling – along the streets, most doors to notaries, beauty salons, and jewelry stores are closed with dirty white shutters and boarded up. Against this backdrop, a large, somewhat bent Christmas tree, which locals dragged into the middle of the street and decorated with paper confetti, looks particularly uplifting.
The other part of the city is grim and almost abandoned. There are virtually no intact buildings left, only heaps of concrete and rebar. The Russians began shelling the city again after its liberation, just like they did with Kherson, as if offended that people were glad to be rid of them.
9We arrive at a location where national guardsmen and border guards are waiting for us, specifically, fighters from the Kramatorsk Border Detachment "Forpost." Men in uniform are standing in a basement room, waiting for Igor Klymenko to enter. They quietly converse and joke among themselves, but when they see the cameras, they straighten up and assume a serious demeanor.
One of the soldiers – a young national guard member with the call sign "Koschey" agrees to comment. He went to war on February 28, 2022, because "whether I want to or not, I have to get ready." "Koschey" looks tired and sleepy, having just returned from the front line. When asked whether he has stopped being surprised by the actions of the Russians, he furrows his brow.
– Honestly, I have already stopped being surprised; they have such a mess in their heads that they can do anything. As always, they have imperialism – the more territories they grab, the better, and then they ruin them. Well, that’s just how it generally turns out for them.
Klymenko enters the room with the soldiers, and the command "Attention" is given. After a brief speech, the men approach the minister, receive their awards, and say, "I serve the Ukrainian people." The phrase is spoken with different intonations and voices but invariably brings tears.
– What do you think the Russians' goal is? They seem unwilling to sit at any negotiation table.
– The Russians want to advance as much as possible, to destroy us as much as they can. If they can't break the spirit of our fighters, they break the spirit of our citizens. Today's shelling with various types of missiles shows their intentions. Today, the enemy used missiles with cluster munitions, complicating the elimination of the shelling. It was still dark outside; we sent in our sappers first, and then the SES.
0We move on. In Ukraine, the mobilization process is clearly not going very well. This is eloquently illustrated by the wave of criticism directed at both the employees of the territorial recruitment centers and the police officers who accompany them on "raids." As a result, people occasionally express grievances towards law enforcement – why aren’t they at the front if they are calling others to go?
– How many police officers are at the front, and what do you say to those who argue that all police should be in combat zones?
– Today you could see that on the line of combat engagement, we have units from the National Guard, border guards, and the National Police. Today, there were two commanders of National Police units, which have been directly in the hell of Defense Forces for several months. These include our special units, and Lyut, as well as consolidated units that are fighting alongside the National Guard. That is thousands of police officers.
– What is the percentage of this?
– 10%. About 10,000 police officers are combatants at the front line.
– Can we increase that number?
– We have 25,000 constantly in combat zones. We are engaged in evacuating people and working at checkpoints. There is a wide range of tasks outside police activities. 40-45 thousand are constantly in combat zones and frontline regions. And we are talking about the border area, where the State Border Guard Service and police units are located.
The maximum number of people is involved, but I would like to point out that in the National Police, out of 100,000, 25% are women. And 17% are those who have not reached the mobilization age. Now it is easy to calculate the 45,000 I mentioned, 25,000 are women, and 17% are those who have not reached mobilization age. That is, practically all forces of the National Police are engaged. More than half of the National Guard is involved in combat missions, and half of the State Border Guard Service is also engaged.
– Why do you think people say that? That all police should go to the front?
– I think there is fear among some people who say this – fear of going to the front or sending their relatives there. Or it is simply a misunderstanding that the security in the state we have today will not maintain itself when there are no police in the cities. On one hand, we see a police officer, but on the other hand – we do not see the huge army of investigators documenting thousands of crimes, we do not see those who solve crimes to make life easier for people.
1We are not saying that every day, 6,500 people are on duty to ensure security and response. According to the president's requirement, in rural areas, a police officer should arrive no later than 20 minutes after a crime is committed, and in the city, no more than 10 minutes. It’s a huge country, many people, a large number of crimes, and the response system must work.
If we talk about people in combat zones, near these areas, we understand the burden on the police officer. If earlier they had to rest for 2-3 days after a shift, now the time has significantly decreased, and they have much less time for recovery.
"TCC can operate without the National Police"
We enter the Donetsk region and stop at the eponymous stele. Here, in April 2014, the Russian army entered without identification marks like thieves. Almost all of Donbas has been under Russian occupation for over ten years. It is frightening to think that during this time, children have been born and have gone to school there. People may have long since gotten used to being called part of the "young republics." Not accepted – but accustomed.
2– Behind this stele, a few dozen kilometers away, are people who have lived under occupation for over 10 years. What do we need to do to regain their minds?
– We have already said that it will be hardest with the children who were born during the occupation, and these children are already in the 4th-5th grade. It is important for the state to spend its resources